The Porsche Macan?

"Ilike_cougars" (rohitvenkat01) 10/31/2013 at 15:20 • Filed to: None

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Just saw this posted on the Drivr facebook page,

Not really sure if want..

Mosqvich > Ilike_cougars 10/31/2013 at 15:22

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I'm hoping it will drive down resale value on Cayennes, which I'm thinking about buying.

NotACactus > Ilike_cougars 10/31/2013 at 15:23

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Alfa 147?

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Ilike_cougars 10/31/2013 at 15:23

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WTF happened to the Cayenne? It so successful they want two SUVs now? As if Porsche doesn't seem to sell more SUVs than anything already.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Ilike_cougars 10/31/2013 at 15:25

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No all-road coupe version, no care.

Mikeado > Mosqvich 10/31/2013 at 15:25

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Turbo S or GTFO.

Mikeado > Ilike_cougars 10/31/2013 at 15:28

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Yup, that's the one.

The sad thing about it (other than it existing...) is that the rear end is essentially taken from the Panamera Sport Turismo Concept, which they don't seem to be putting into production. I'll be reminded of that fact every time I see a Macan. :-(

:-(

MylesD > Ilike_cougars 10/31/2013 at 15:39

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Part of me is actually more accepting of this than the Panamera. I don't exactly dislike the Panamera, but it's a stretch (get it?!) in the design sense. This actually works for me.

m2m, apex detective > NotACactus 10/31/2013 at 15:41

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If you must find a car with a purportedly similar design at the rear, I'd rather go with a Fiat Croma. Let's see if posting this works ... /concentrationface

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ilike_cougars 10/31/2013 at 15:43

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The profile view is decent, but the front end is... overwrought.

m2m, apex detective > Mikeado 10/31/2013 at 15:45

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So close and yet so far ...

Get me into Porsche and I'll make 'em make it. It's so much better looking than what they have ... really bad decision-making there by the Porsche suits.

I also want to pick on Toyota's model range and decide who gets which and what's scrapped.

NotACactus > m2m, apex detective 10/31/2013 at 15:53

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Definitely looks more like it.

m2m, apex detective > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 10/31/2013 at 15:54

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They sell many, yet they could sell more if they broaden their product palette. Which this does. At the moment – and especially in Mid-Europe – people often pick the Q5 over its whale of a big brother. The same goes for other makes, too; instead of picking a normally equipped relatively big car, they opt for something smaller and better kitted out. Must be a weird sort of sustainability thinking. ;)

Ilike_cougars > MylesD 10/31/2013 at 15:55

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Lol, yeah its a little better looking than the Panamera, but I better is a very relative term in this case, but that front grill, dear lord!!

Ilike_cougars > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/31/2013 at 15:57

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Yeah the Side profile works wonders then you see the front.. hope its fast then you don't have to..

Ilike_cougars > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 10/31/2013 at 16:00

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Look at it this way BMW sells the X5 and the X3, what ever pity ful sales they have of the X3(haven't seen one on the roads for ages) looks like they may want to compete. But I have to agree, buying a Porsche would probably feel a lot better than a BMW of the same type, so id hold my judgement, this might still work out..

Ilike_cougars > Mosqvich 10/31/2013 at 16:02

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Yeah cant believe how low the old gen Cayenne prices are already going, a lot of bang for the buck..

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ilike_cougars 10/31/2013 at 16:05

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Rear looks pretty good, too.

Opposite of the Panamera, which is great from the front, not so great from the back...

Maybe one of these days the non-traditional Porsche model designers will get one all right. I'll be sad if the Panamera wagon concept never gets the green light.

Mikeado > m2m, apex detective 10/31/2013 at 16:11

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Considering the potential to take on Audi Avants, you'd think...

...parent company VW might not approve.

Shit.

Which Toyotas would you scrap?

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > m2m, apex detective 10/31/2013 at 16:22

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Who needs sustainability when you have the 918?!?! I didn't realize this was smaller than the Cayenne so that kind of makes sense now.

exizeo - still loving fourza > Mikeado 10/31/2013 at 17:09

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Venza,, Land Cruiser (like it, but 80k for a toyota?), all hybrids except Prius, Prius V, and maybe the Highlander.

m2m, apex detective > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 10/31/2013 at 19:33

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My guess is that this, after a short adjustment period where people get used to this car's existence, it will actually outsell the Cayenne. From what I had heard earlier, this is supposedly about the size of Audi's Q5 (hear, hear) and is aimed at a more premium clientele still.

I'd not bet on the 918 making Porsche's money, as they limit the production number from the start to preserve exclusivity; maybe they make a loss with the car, I could see that happening due to the painstakingly complicated development.

m2m, apex detective > Mikeado 10/31/2013 at 20:12

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I'd get rid of Scion as a brand altogether and focus on rebuilding the main make's image. Lexus can stay, the Japanese manufacturers all have their little toys.

Europe's creature of habits buyership demands a broader model palette, carmakers need to offer alternatives to the cars that pretty much define their respective segments here. Take a quick look at the big three "premium" makes here with MB, Audi (and to some extent VW, too) and BMW, you could come up with a table comparing the cars ... they even have somewhat equal motorization levels for each model lineup.
To get a rough idea of what I mean, just take a look at these multiples:

Passat TDI BlueMotion/Passat TSI BlueMotion; Audi A4 TFSI w/ cyl. deactivation/A4 TDI Clean Diesel; Mercedes C-Class CDI Bluetec/BlueEfficiency; BMW 3-Series Efficient Dynamics/Diesel ED. All have a funky "sports" trim with AMG, S-Line and M-Sport, all have an optional AWD system with a funky name on top, quattro, 4MATIC and xDrive, and all can be had with DCTs or DSGs or comparable automatic transmissions (likely made by the same OEM anyway). It's pretty much a question of what you prefer ... they don't really occupy different niches in the market in my opinion, and that's what makes them competitive regarding each other. You have to offer each model the others can offer, too; look at what happened with BMW's attempt to tap new niches ... now Porsche closes ranks, as will Audi, as will MB and VW later on. We'll get a CUV four-door coupe-style vehicle from each of them, a development I would very happily bet on if you agreed to maybe exclude VW from my assumption.

Try to fight the schematics of the automotive markets here and your product will be dismissed as "not really the same as XY" in regard to certain aspects, be that visually orderly interiors, intuitive ergonomics or build quality. Especially zee Germans (forgive my focus here, I'm sitting amongst them) want to have the freedom to not really choose anything. Whatever make you pick, you can almost always have a car that essentially does the same job.

Hmm ... almost went off-topic with this, but that kind of sat in my head for half a day after seeing pictures of the production Macan (and yes, that is the production model, even if the weird planks on the side will be deleted or made optionable).

Toyota and Lexus both lack some competitive cars for the Euro market. With the GS now getting a sport model, they might just have gotten the idea, but I'm not too optimistic about the speed at which they adjust ... they also need Diesel engines that are on par with the competition; while Toyota will get BMW's 4-cyl. Diesels, that still leaves room for 6-cyl. Turbo-Diesel engines in the 240-300 hp range.

Pardon my not very structured approach to the subtopics btw!

All the Germans offer a much greater number of engine and power choices. Sure, e.g. the IS-F has ample power when you consider the other performance models in the segment, but underneath that top dog spot, there's little to be had. Audi still has an S4 beneath the RS4. BMW still has 335i and 335d before you get to the M range. Mercedes has the 6-cyl. C-Class before you get into AMG territory. I'm sure you get what I'm trying to convey here.

I'll cut it here off about here, else I'll end up rambling on for ages ... the main point is that to compete over here, you need to aim at the same target audiences and perpetual habits. Being different may sound like a great attribute, but it'll not open any doors.

Meh. :D

biturboism, the cult > Ilike_cougars 10/31/2013 at 22:19

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After the successful iPad, we present you the new iPad Mini.

Because GREED.

Ilike_cougars > biturboism, the cult 10/31/2013 at 23:08

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Lol Agreed.. soon we will have the Nano version as well..

Manuél Ferrari > biturboism, the cult 11/01/2013 at 03:09

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It looks like an angry alien robot that wants to nom nom on Caymans in that picture.

Manuél Ferrari > m2m, apex detective 11/01/2013 at 03:17

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I think that's especially true for the Q5 over the Q7 because the Q7 is truly a whale. The Q7 is longer than the Cayenne and thus harder to drive.

When it comes to the Macan I hope the top model is just plain bonkers. I can forgive Porsche for making another SUV if it flat out destroys every other SUV on the planet when it comes to on-road performance. The Cayenne Turbo gets away with being a Porsche SUV because it's just so much faster and better handling than any other large SUV. Totally unnecessary, yes, but bonkers for the sake of being bonkers.

I read the top Macan will have a 3.6L turbo V6. A Turbo S model will probably come out at some point and have maybe 460HP tops? I think the Audi Q5 weighs about 4000 lbs. If Porsche can use weight saving material to get it down to about 3850 it would be a pretty quick vehicle. It wouldn't actually weigh that much more than my E90 M3. A Macan Turbo S could be fun one day if purchased used for half the original MSRP.

m2m, apex detective > Manuél Ferrari 11/01/2013 at 10:50

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If they give it too much power, it'll easily outperform the Cayenne Turbo S, though, and I think they won't let that happen. Still, if past power outputs of turbo engines with relatively small displacement are any indication, there's well enough power to be had from it. Keep in mind that they are usually so overengineered that it's a mere cakewalk to extract some additional performance.

You're spot-on about the Q5 v Q7 sizes, although I meant to point to the general development of "normally" sized CUVs/SUVs over full-fat cars with less kit. People buy less Touaregs, too, now that the Tiguan looks a bit more mature.

Also, a fun thought struck me while reading your comment: If a Macan shouldn't weigh that much more than an E90 M3, what does that tell us about the latter? :o

Manuél Ferrari > m2m, apex detective 11/01/2013 at 16:36

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True they won't want the car to be faster than the Cayenne Turbo S. Damn corporate rules. The Cayman S & R should be faster and the Macan Turbo should be allowed to be all it can be.

I honestly don't know why the E90 M3 weighs so much. I ask myself that every time I corner hard in mine. I think BMW used a lot more steel than aluminum in the E9X platform. But I still love her, even if she's a bit too portly ;)

m2m, apex detective > Manuél Ferrari 11/01/2013 at 18:34

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Regarding the E90, maybe there is such a thing as a stocky yet fit physique for cars; maybe something similar to the concept of athletes weighing more than people of a visually similar build that don't do as much sports and hence have less muscle mass, leaving them with the same overall build but more weight due to the relatively higher density of the body. Overcomplicate everything! ;)

If Porsche had not passively pulled rank on Audi developing the TT-RS's 2.5l 5-cyl. engine, it might have ended up absolutely slaughtering the base 911 of the time. That's a story I was told by someone who worked with Audi at the time ... I wish the cars would not be bred towards certain market niches so much.

Manuél Ferrari > m2m, apex detective 11/01/2013 at 19:44

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Haha I love that analogy. That is what I will use from this point forward to explain why my car weighs more than a Mustang GT :)

I hate how corporate issues hamper cars. I wish that companies that collaborate with each other or are owned by the same parent focused more on competing with external parties than protecting themselves from partners/siblings. It would have been a good thing for the Audi to slaughter the 911. That would have forced Porsche to up the power a lot at the next opportunity, which just would have given them an edge on other competitors.

And speaking of Porsche I hope they one day build a smaller sedan with two halfway usable back seats. It's corporate nonsense that has stopped this from happening. They started with the Panamera because bigger cars sell for more money. And they didn't want a small sedan to challenge the 911. It's so dumb though because they are missing out on a lot of sales. Had Porsche had a competitor to the M3 then I probably would have purchased it instead. I love Porsches and know that they could totally dominate the small luxury sports sedan segment if they wanted to. But it may never happen because of fears of cannibalizing 911 sales and stepping on Audi's toes.

m2m, apex detective > Manuél Ferrari 11/01/2013 at 21:06

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One of my hopes is that they will come up with a 928 replacement eventually ... while the Panamera of course has as four-seater configuration, it's also just that bit too big.

Sales of the 911 are not very likely to be damaged by the introduction of a Porsche sedan, if you ask me, as the 911 has a very special prestige attached to its name that said sedan would not have at first. And seeing that Porsche has by far the highest profit margin per car, it should be a target even to step on Audi's toes in terms of sales, as that would increase the overall profit in the group. For each Porsche that would be bought over, say, an S4 or S5, they would make a little bit of extra money ... so I can't really see that as an argument against a Porsche sedan.

Manuél Ferrari > m2m, apex detective 11/01/2013 at 21:16

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I want to see a 928 too. I hope that it's based off a future chassis instead of the Panamera's chassis. It should be a lot smaller and lighter than a coupe version of the current Panamera in order to be a replacement of the original 928. If they want to make a big Panamera coupe too that's fine, it could be a more sporty competitor to the ultra luxury large coupes.

I don't think Porsche should worry about eating into 911 sales either. The cars would be aimed at totally different buyers. Plus they could attract younger buyers to the brand with their M3 competitor, then later sell them the more expensive Carrera S when that customer gets older and has more money.